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egghead

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Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #1 

I have been serving in a supervisory role of a force of 160 for the past year.  I serve in this role on a part time basis as a member of a county wide task force.  I have full supervisory powers as it pertains to scheduling and task assignments.  Additionally, I have served in this role as an incident commander for several county wide incidents.  Anyone with any information please let me know. p.s. i am only a patrolman.

Kpdpipes

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Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 3,015
Reply with quote  #2 

Doubt you have much of a leg to stand on.  You are Paid by your Dept at your Patrolman's rate. Your duty with the TF is (I assume) TDY/Voluntary. I'm in the same boat.  Patrolman at my Dept, Supv on a county-level unit..but it was Made clear that we would get overtime if authorized, but otherwise it's what they called a "Dutch Brevet"  you act as a boss, but no change in rank or Pay.

egghead

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Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #3 
That is what I thought.  It is not a big deal to me I enjoy the challenge and frankly after 15 years on the job I should probably take a promotion test and this would not be an issue. thanks
goldshield

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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 1,301
Reply with quote  #4 
unless your promoted, there is no acting supervisor pay, its not a recognized position.  The council would have to vote on it.  Like if your chief or someone was retiring, and took off a year to use sick time, the council could approve to make a temporary LT or temporary asst. chief position at a salary of ______ and the position will NOT be filled once the acting whatever moves into their spot.  Thats the only way you can do it. 

But it happens alot, when they'll send X amount of officers to the mall or a part of a town for a detail, and they'll make a patrolman the supervisor of the group, but theres no money to it, but it looks good to say you were the acting supervisor for such and such a detail, especially if its long term.  We have a violent crime task force where every once in a while they take a certain number of officers from each shift, and they work together for a few month, different hours, and the most senior man is the acting sgt.  No pay, but looks good on paper.
reconman

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Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 502
Reply with quote  #5 
What do you guys think about HAVING to be acting supervisor. We currently have a few Sgt. positions open in plain clothes units. They have assigned the senior detective in each unit to be acting supervisors. After a year of being acting supervisors without compensation, the detectives asked to be relieved of their supervisory duties. They were denied.

Another issue is having senior patrol officers act as supervisors in the Sgt absence. If a Sgt is off, instead of replacing him/her, the senior patrol officer becomes OIC, without compensation. That job could fall upon a patrol officer with 15 years on or an officer with a year or two on. As long as you are the senior officer that day, you are the OIC. None of the patrols have been sent are have been approved to go to supervisory schools, yet they are held accountable for mistakes and other issues that come up during their tour. They have no other supervisory tier above them on nights to go to for help. Some have asked not to be OIC and have been denied the request.

What do you think?
rscalzo

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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 4,394
Reply with quote  #6 

Unless your contract covers such a position, you're out of luck.


__________________
R. Scalzo
Secaucus PD - Retired 3/05
Now very happy in Epping, NH
Blueguy

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Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 714
Reply with quote  #7 

When we have supervisor overtime, it is our department's policy that a Sgt. fill a Sgt.'s spot.  They want a supervisor working who is promoted and paid to make decisions.  Although it hardly ever happens, it is specifically worded in our PBA contract that if a senior officer acts in the position of a supervisor for a shift, he/she is to be compensated the difference between their rate and supervisor rate.  I know this has happened a couple of times in the DB when a senior detective was in charge for a day.  It happens more often if a division captain is on vacation and the senior Lt. is put in charge, they get captain's pay.

Our PBA also won a grievance a couple of years ago because we had an officer in a position outside of patrol doing supervisory duties.  He was on the top of the promotion list and instead of using him like they were, the town finally agreed to promote him.  It did take some time and a lot of meetings, but the town eventually saw the error of their ways and did the right thing.

I would think that if you are being ordered to be OIC and not being compensated, you definitely have a grievence you can win.  If you ask not to be OIC because you are not compensated, feel you don't have the experience, etc., the PD is setting themselves up for a legal problem by forcing you to work in that capacity without the proper training.  There is case law about department liability for failure to train.

Kpdpipes

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Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 3,015
Reply with quote  #8 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reconman
What do you guys think about HAVING to be acting supervisor. We currently have a few Sgt. positions open in plain clothes units. They have assigned the senior detective in each unit to be acting supervisors. After a year of being acting supervisors without compensation, the detectives asked to be relieved of their supervisory duties. They were denied.

Another issue is having senior patrol officers act as supervisors in the Sgt absence. If a Sgt is off, instead of replacing him/her, the senior patrol officer becomes OIC, without compensation. That job could fall upon a patrol officer with 15 years on or an officer with a year or two on. As long as you are the senior officer that day, you are the OIC. None of the patrols have been sent are have been approved to go to supervisory schools, yet they are held accountable for mistakes and other issues that come up during their tour. They have no other supervisory tier above them on nights to go to for help. Some have asked not to be OIC and have been denied the request.

What do you think?


Inside your own Agency is a WHOLE other kettle of Fish, there your contract would have to come into play.  in my Agency we Do have "Acting" positions  Sgt to Lt, Lt to Capt, however we do NOT Elevate Patrolmen to "Acting" status to cover a Sgt's position.  IIRC it is a violation of Civil Service rules to put a Patrolman in direct supervision of another Patrolman...of course, alsu under Civil Service a Senior Patrolman has a duty to intervene if he sees someone junior screwing up so it's a catch-22.  In your example though I think your agency is opening itself up to MASSIVE LIability by not haveing SOME legitimate "Superior" officer on duty as a supervisor.  Any of us who are senior have done it..Ridden in on jobs either on our own, or at the request of a boss to keep an eye on juniors, and offer a little guidance if necessary, it's part of what we're supposed to do..the older generations teaching the newbies..but to try and make that some kind of a half-assed excuse for not having an Actual Boss to go to if things go bad...that's insanity.  All it's going to take is one REALLY bad job to go down, and when it goes to Court SOMEONE is going to have to answe the Question of why a Patrolman was left in charge making decisions that are in effect WAY above his pay Grade.
ineedanewjob

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Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 332
Reply with quote  #9 

Hey blue guy, can you point me to a perc reference or something on the situation you described.... i know someone who could really benefit from that

Blueguy

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Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 714
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedanewjob

Hey blue guy, can you point me to a perc reference or something on the situation you described.... i know someone who could really benefit from that


There is no specific PERC reference that I can point you to.  It is our PD's policy that a supervisor always be working and that supervisors only cover supervisor overtime.  The grievance that the PBA brought about the officer who was working in a supervisory capacity but not getting paid as one, was settled at the township before going to perc.  It appears that the PBA and our attorney had everything in order to show that he was in fact acting as a supervisor so instead of wasting the money and time in court, they settled and promoted him.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of Fagan v. city of Vineland.  It's a pursuit case where the cops were cleared but liability was placed on the Chief and the town for failing to properly train the officers.  I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to presume that if you were ordered to be an OIC without any advanced training and there was a questionable incident, the department could be held liable for putting you into that position.

If you're working for a civil service department, I believe there are actual job descriptions by DOP on what duties a patrolman, sergeant, Lt., etc. should be responsible for.  I seem to remember that part of the PBA's case was that the officer was working outside of his classification and was performing duties described as belonging to a sergeant.

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